((In response to Squeeker's post about reveling who is behind all of this and his post in general, i don't know who this person is, nor did i approve of my character being revealed, i will decide if i want my character to be revealed, and i will discuss that with someone i know, and as for his or her post i the starter of this Sl, do not in anyway approve of this, if people in this sl who wish to be involved in this do not have some sense of fair play, i am discountinuing this Sl, and any other future sls in Rhydin. I.E. no revealing who is behind the killings, and no raising of the dead, its a waste anyway, as i will just post more deaths.

it seems i will have to take more control of this if needed, i ask that anyone who cares to involve themselves to follow the basic curtosies of Forum posting.

Thankyou Karadis mun

and P.S. to anyone wishing to critize my writing, don't the mun is dyslexic and is very touchy about that sort of thing, i know this is RP, but i have an issue with it, and when i post something saying that letters are made of human skin and blood, they are, i don't care for people altering things, its called fairplay and respect to one's posts. As i said if you can't play fair, than don't involve yourself in this SL.))

Just like to point out:

If you can arbitrarily decide that you killed X amount of people, then why is it wrong for someone else to decide that they arbitrarily resurrected X amount of people?

I would suggest not making playables in which you engage in highly-implausible actions that affect dozens, if not hundreds of random people throughout the city, brag about it, rather explicitly (as if the playable wasn't explicit enough) invite other players to join by sending them IC letters (with the caveat that of course it's impossible for them to trace it back to your character) and then get upset when those players and other players decide to react to your actions in a similar manner.

This is what we call the pot calling the kettle black.

Also, dyslexia does not, as far as I'm aware, prohibit one from using spellcheck. Just saying.

I would just like to say that I, as a player, am ignoring the thread "Wolvinator: UnWanted" based on prior OOC Issues I have with certain individuals.

The lack of action on my part is not to be construed as implied consent.

Thanks a lot,

Wolvinator's player

Welp, I'm out of the election drama to focus on a few things I've been putting off and to deal with RL issues...

My Grandfather was Diagnosed with Lung Cancer tonight...

Somethings are more important in this world. I lost my father RL one year ago on this coming Friday, now this...

I can't win for losing it seems.

Look at it this way - if there was no such limitation, I could have just created a bunch of characters to vote for myself. Why should one player get to have more influence on the election just because they have more player characters?

I dont know. I dont like it when people make alot of names for the purpose of taking somebody down only. It happens to me alot when their present character cant handle the situation I always seemed to be faced with ever more powerful characters, but that makes no difference because the ones behind them dont change at all.

I have known many people to make screen names at the drop of a hat and for no reason at all. People are obessed with this and will do anything it takes to get what they want.

I would like to believe that people would play fair and not make a bunch of convience characters they never use unless they need to, but they dont.

Personally this whole government thing is a mess and I think we should just throw the whole thing out and think of something alittle less complicated. IE...Bob as king, for example...yeah I like that Idea.

Personally this whole government thing is a mess and I think we should just throw the whole thing out and think of something alittle less complicated. IE...Bob as king, for example...yeah I like that Idea

Kneal to the grander of ....BOB! :lol: That's the spirit! That's funny.....too cute though. Rediculous but cute.

Actually, if people are taking this whole government thing to a personal level, I'd agree that it's a mess we could all do without. It's sad when people take offense to the actual roleplaying instead of seeing it from a less then negative angle.

Course, that's if the players weren't meaning to cause insult to the other players. It's so wrong when players do that to others on purpose just to get even with them, I can't even begin to express my loath of it.

And then there are those who, no matter how it was meant, and especially if it isn't done per their standards, they automatically take it negatively and get all defensive and indignant rather then trying to work it out. And it doesn't matter if you're just trying to deal with the subject, they get all bent out of shape and reveal themselves as the example regardless if hey were the example or not —- as if that will belittle the person trying to deal with the subject. That's also a mess we could all do without.

All this ruins the play and the fun....which is something I thought this whole place - Dragonsmark, RDI and Pharos - was supposed to be here for = Fun.

Sometimes I think some players think the world revolves solely around them and their characters and they don't care how they might be ruining other people's fun. You can almost see it written between the lines *You just better stay out of our way! we don't want to associate with you! You're not part of our Groupie club!* That's just selfish and rude.

I mean, why stick around and participate if it isn't fun" It does take at least two to tango and if people want to take the roleplay to fighting OOC because of the RP, then they need to rethink why they are here because some of the retaliation I've seen and heard about is a bit harassing. Note word, Harassing. Be careful. That's my sage advice - rethink what you're doing, why you're doing it and how you are effecting others and their fun here.

Welp, I'm out of the election drama to focus on a few things I've been putting off and to deal with RL issues.... I was enjoying it....Keyword.

I take it the family is doing better" :cool: Hope so.

Anyway, The real question to this section about players vs player character hasn't been answered yet, and really should be by one of the admins...

Was the word Players meant as is, or was it meant as Player Character?

Look at it this way - if there was no such limitation, I could have just created a bunch of characters to vote for myself. Why should one player get to have more influence on the election just because they have more player characters?

This was the correct answer. One vote per player.

Look at it this way - if there was no such limitation, I could have just created a bunch of characters to vote for myself. Why should one player get to have more influence on the election just because they have more player characters?

This was the correct answer. One vote per player.

That's unfortunate. That just took the fun out of this whole thing, ruined because people don't know how to control themselves or their play. I'm sorry to see this stipulation placed on the play as well. I thought this was Free Form' doesn't feel like it any more.

I just skimmed through some of the stuff on DM boards concerning this issue as well. I'm even more disappointed.

Amal, I have only one request. Please take Sha'uri's vote off the tally count.

If you're monitoring as you say, then you know which one that was for. If not, then PM me. Other people don't need to know.

I want nothing to do with this election any more because the lines between the IC and OOC just crossed too much for my liking. I don't wish to play with it any longer. This is not a slam on any one particular player or an attempt to mess up the counts or whatever. I just don't to have anything to do with this because of the way it's being controlled and how it dips too much into the OOC prospective. It is not fair to those who did work hard. There must be a better way to do this.

Besides, I didn't realize this when Sha cast her vote and maybe I - the player- would've voted differently had I understood that all this crap was going on about it. Maybe. More the likely I wouldn't have had her vote at all.

And I'm sorry for those that did work hard to do all this. It really could've been fun. It really isn't fair the way people are who make up 50 gazillion stupid names to use against other players like that.....and it isn't right to control the voting as it is being done. And it isn't fair to ignore the whole thing either.

STill, I feel a need to maintain a certain integrity between my IC and OOC. The way this voting is set now is blurring the lines too much for me. There is a better way to do this but until that's set, I can't do this. So please understand why I am backing out of the play.

Thanks.

I do support your decision here, Amal, don't get me wrong - as Gav and Anastas pointed out, people with multiple characters may very well make all their characters vote for the same candidate. I used two characters last year that I can recall and each one voted for a different candidate, but that may not be the norm - the rule of one vote per player is there because it must be there to prevent still greater blending from going on.

However necessary it is, that doesn't mean it doesn't have its downsides - such as having to pick which one among all your characters gets to vote, even if naturally, IC, more than one of them, possibly all of them, would realistically vote. I think that's what upsets people, and it's frustrating to me to a degree because I have a couple other characters who would be interested in the election and would support different candidates, but I accept it because it is necessary.

To any players who might be considering withdrawing their votes (I'm not directing anything one way or the other at those who have chosen to go the "No Confidence" route, so don't take this the wrong way), I beg you to reconsider, given that the way this election is conducted, while it may not be the most ideal, seems to be the best plausible compromise. Even if you feel you may have a better idea of how the election could be conducted, those ideas should have been formally presented well before now, even in the period after the primaries, as this election is already in progress.

The No Confidence Petitions are the perfect example of why this should be. I went through and found several people had signed on alts (Those that were known to me)...

I agree with you Erin.

I have 4 different characters that I play often. It is interesting that in rp and on the boards, each of the four would have voted differently. So I had to just pick one and go with it.

I'll still rp that each had voted for the candidate they were supporting, but I feel really limited. In spite of this, I have to agree with one vote per player is the best method, because at least in this case my vote actually counts.

Gav

Normally..I'd remain quiet on matters like this, but I am with Amal on this. Most who know me here. Know that I do have other characters I play here. I understand that this is the admins, trying to make the second election fair. The way I see this choice they made, is to try and keep players with multiple names here. From abusing the ablility to have more than one name.

I know there are others here that have multiple names, as well as those whom vote once. Hard to say who done it. But using multiple names to push one person over the other, to me is abusing the ability to create names here. Just my two cents on this.

Okay.... Here we go....

I'm wondering. How is casting one vote per palyer stopping them from roleplaying that their character voted"

It doesn't, but it also doesn't give credit to their votes and therefore it really doesn't give the voting a fair count so the roleplay is kinda obsolete in that respect. It's very limiting.

Even if you feel you may have a better idea of how the election could be conducted, those ideas should have been formally presented well before now, even in the period after the primaries, as this election is already in progress.

I may not do everything *Formally* or properly, but I'm not that crass .....Coulda woulda should've in effect here .....Didn't you read what I wrote" I would've done just that had I thought of it then. Like I said, I had already voted with Sha before I even thought of it or why the whole thing bothered me. I also asked a simple question and it escalated from there because of the band wagon that followed. So here ....we ....are.

I'll admit, I haven't read this entire thread word for word.

Then maybe you should...It's a bit insulting to not read something fully and then try to make someone look stupid for their opinion. Nice touch with the NPC comment, though. I'll give it a golf clap.

Although, any real roleplayer will tell you that NPC's are always background fodder and expendable. They don't get a vote even if someone roleplays that they did.

Oh...wait...isn't that what One Vote Per Player does to other PC's a person has" Yep, it sure does. Reduces them to NPC status. No wonder I feel so limited.

The No Confidence Petitions are the perfect example of why this should be. I went through and found several people had signed on alts (Those that were known to me)...

And your point is" ....How dare they use another name" :??":

It appeared that they were just role playing in those strings since there wasn't a space on the actual ballot to choose a no confidence vote. On one hand, I think there should've been a spot on the ballot for it, since there was roleplay with a petition for it. Yet, on the other hand....I"m sure many would not agree with that because it would have the potential for really thwarting efforts a bit too much and then that wouldn't be too cool from an OOC prospective. I DO know how much work goes into things like the campaign or any other collaborative events that are more publicized. But I digress from the topic.

I'll still rp that each had voted for the candidate they were supporting, but I feel really limited. In spite of this, I have to agree with one vote per player is the best method, because at least in this case my vote actually counts.

I agree on the limited feeling. LIke I said, it's like demeaning the PC's to an NPC status. I really hate that. However, your vote would still count no matter how many characters you used to vote with....if the votes weren't thrown out. And I don't agree that it's the best method, not at all. Here's why...

The only way I know of that most people know who's playing who is by word of mouth and confession. What if they lied" How does anyone really know unless they do tell the truth' Unfortunately, it's all too common that some just don't do that. So how does one keep track....How do you or the admins know for a fact that there are single people each with 50 + names made up"

I could see tabs being kept by some kind of cookie or tracking the computer address thing (whatever, ya'll know what I mean cause there's a way to do it)....which feels really creepy to think about how that can be done, even though I am pretty sure that the Admins would NOT do anything wrong with that information......

However, Does that ensure a single player isn't using different computers to play from' No, it doesn't. Some people have more then one and some change them more often then others. Tracking the computer becomes difficult in that respect.

So how can the Admin's fairly determine who's playing who all the time or even if the player has voted twice unless.....the player tells the truth'

I suppose a computer could be tracked and maybe for awhile it would be acurate. But, What if there is more then one player using the same computer" I know for a fact that some people do that. Is it fair to cut off the other players vote then just because it appears to be only one player because it's coming from the same computer" I don't think so.

Maybe they don't want to tell people that there are more then one player, or even who all they are playing. Is it right to demand that information' I don't know.

How can anyone fairly know who they're dealing with and determine without a doubt who's playing who' I don't see how anyone can unless the player is truthful.

Where's the fairness in pulling votes of just the ones known about, known by true confessions, when there could be a whole lot more out there that should've been pulled but werent because they don't say anything and nobody knows or realizes it's the same player"

Seriously, while it seems One Vote Per Player might be the only way to deal with the issue right now, it is not exactly a fair or best choice either. It punishes the honest player and controls them more then it does those who are not so honest.....

If they want to find a way to skirt the system, they'll do it especially if they feel they aren't being treated fairly. So how does controlling the honest players votes thwart the not so honest ones" It Doesn't.

So while we got an Admin pulling what they believe are multi votes they think are being cast by the same player, how do they know for sure"

If they know for sure, and not because of any player true confessions...then I would agree the way things are being done is the fairest way.

But...how do they know" Inquiring minds truly want to know. Maybe it doesn't really matter if they know because it's not going to do anything to solve the real problem.

Maybe..just maybe...if there was some kind of compromise, things would be better. Why not give each player five screen names at most they can register together to vote with, which will need to be registered together as being from the same player and they each get one vote ....five names per computer if that's how the admins can track it. That way if there are multiple people playing on the same computer, then that still gives them a chance to vote fairly between the five maximum votes they can have. If not, if its just one player, then I think five votes is plenty to play with and still vote how you want without being overbearing.

Five....It's a good oddball number and would give some players a chance to feel they've played their characters, at least some of them, while giving opportunity for them to vote a little heavier for the one they want from an OOC prospective. After all, isn't that what some people are saying that the vote is an OOC thing"

More food for thought..

People register in real life for voting, I think it should be done here IC as well. Heck, they could be given a special icon in each of their profiles that says they've registered for voting —- so that only those screen names are allowed to vote and be counted —— but when they do they must register their names with their grouping of five screen names so that all five names are linked together as being from the same player - which that particular info should only be privy to the Admins. I think the Admins should have a right to know that. Look at AOL with their main screen name and six others they can create and change out. I know all those names are linked together and can be tracked back to the main screen name. I know we probably can't set it up like that here and I wasn't suggesting that. Just a means to register names together as being from the same player for the Admins to keep track of.

Maybe that would be enough to get the not so honest players to accept that as compromise enough that they would do that and adhere to it. I think it's worth trying.

Well, at least I'm not just complaining and leaving it at that. I'm trying to think of solutions. I always do, eventually.

I think there needs to be a compromise. Maybe my suggestions aren't the right ones .....At least I try.

I'm sure if things change about the voting, it won't happen this year,....coulda, woulda, shoulda in effect....but for next year. There's a whole year to think about the suggestions I've just unloaded in this. Or think of something better on your own. What do I know anyway"

So while we got an Admin pulling what they believe are multi votes they think are being cast by the same player, how do they know for sure"

Right now, we're watching things based on IP address. Not perfect, but it gives us a decent idea of what?s going on.

And I wish we didn't even have to worry about this, but based on the fact that a single IP address is currently accounting for nearly 25% of all the cast votes...."

There is only one other IP address that was used for more than one vote, and I personally know both players behind the names.

Basing this on an IP address is the closest thing we can do to registering voters, and help minimize the issue of "stuffing the ballot box".

Panther pointed out the *why* for me, Shauri. That's all I need to say.

Any update on when the bug should be fixed?

There is only one other IP address that was used for more than one vote, and I personally know both players behind the names.

Basing this on an IP address is the closest thing we can do to registering voters, and help minimize the issue of "stuffing the ballot box".

I'm glad to see your answer, Panther, because it makes things very apparent. People are being watched. And it appears you might like the suggestion about registering to vote and whatnot. I hope the multi vote, being the same amount for each player/computer will be considered.

I know some people think it's unfair to have more then one vote per player, and I understand that....but I think its even more unfair for players to be allowed or to take advantage of a situation and make more votes then other players are being allowed. I don't care who they are.

What's the difference if we're being allowed one vote or five....we should all get the same chances. At least with five, or three or two....some people get a chance to let their characters make a vote, or to let those who have more then one player using the same computer to have their own vote, too.

I mean, really....This isn't the national elections, it's just roleplaying. So what if the box gets stuffed a little as long as everyone has the same opportunity to stuff it as much as the next player gets, and we can do it how we like it. It all works out the same in the end, it just gives a little room for anything could happen and for those who want to feel like their roleplay has some bearing. I kinda like surprises, too, and that would give the whole thing that added unknown element that seems to really be missing in this year. Think about it. That's all I ask.

Time for me to put my two pffenigs in.

1) Allowing for a person to have 5 votes....Well, okay....but what about someone, for example my cousin, who only has one character" Because he only has one character, he should have less of a say in who gets elected" While he could create profiles for four of the NPCs that he and I often write about in our SLs....why should he have to' Yes, the NPCs are important to our SLs, and have even been included in some other SLs that we've joined in....but (at least for me) they're not Characters that we intend to bring in to the chat rooms for casual RPing. They're story-based characters used to further (or create) stories.

2) The "huddled masses"....Technically, Karen Wilder is the public face of the Knights Templar of Rhy'Din. There are higher ranking people in the organization, but they're all NPCs. For RPing purposes, the 600+ Knights, soldiers, Priests, families and support personell of the Templars are all voting for KW. However....for RPing purposes, KW and the Templars do have enemies. The surviving supporters of the Myr'Kul, the Hospitalatiers (there's a couple of SLs on the RoH forums about this) and various criminal organizations all hate the idea of KW becoming Governor....so they'd all vote against her. Thus, the extra NPC votes she would "have" get counterbalanced by the NPCs who would vote against her.

3) The "Randomness" factor mentioned by Lydia. That's probably a very good way to look at it. Plus, you have to consider that most PCs are very influential people....Most of us RP our characters as having at least some level of recognition and fame (or infamy). Thus, large numbers of people (read: NPCs) would be swayed to vote the same way our characters do. I know that, for example, my character Maetel would likely vote for whoever was the last person to ask her to vote for them just before she voted! :grin:

4) The "No Confidence" petition. In a real election, if "None of the Above" gets more votes than any other candidate, one of two things happens: First, the actual candidate who got the most votes wins anyway....or Second, a new election is called and other candidates can even be nominated. There is no chance that the elected office would simply remain vacant.

I know some people think it's unfair to have more then one vote per player, and I understand that....but I think its even more unfair for players to be allowed or to take advantage of a situation and make more votes then other players are being allowed. I don't care who they are.

What's the difference if we're being allowed one vote or five....we should all get the same chances. At least with five, or three or two....some people get a chance to let their characters make a vote, or to let those who have more then one player using the same computer to have their own vote, too.

It's never been said that we would limit the voting to one per IP address. There are lots of folks on here that are known to have multiple players in an address, and to the best of their ability, Amal and Xeno and Des have taken that in to account when figuring out the fairest way possible to deal with this.

Is it a "perfect" solution' No. But like just about everything we do here, it is the solution that works best for the most folks involved.

Moral of this Election....

Scandal does not sell...

:lol: In more ways then one...

It's never been said that we would limit the voting to one per IP address.

No, but you elluded to it when I asked ....

So while we got an Admin pulling what they believe are multi votes they think are being cast by the same player, how do they know for sure"

Right now, we're watching things based on IP address.

But you're right, nobody said it.

But like just about everything we do here, it is the solution that works best for the most folks involved.

Let's see...how many do we have involved" .....

We got over six thousand, closer to 7000, registered names (not to be confused with IP addresses) in DM, an election that had at one point over 80 votes with 25% of them coming from the same IP....an end count of sixty something presumably after the 25% were pulled. So....pretty much, we've got just over 60 players that are involved"

Is That ALL??" :shock:

I don't know, but it seems there are a lot more players then just that around here. isn't there? OR is that all that were even interested in the election....Wow, that just floors me to think how many weren't. I think that just fried my brian! :eek:

"Scandal doesn't sell": Well, neither does electioneering, nor making long and involved posts specifically calling for other player's input.

No offence to Matt's player....he's a great guy and we get along really well. His characters and my characters get involved in complicated storylines, etc. But, lets be honest, he posted the least of all the candidates. ( Of course, some times I felt like KW was the "Ron Paul" candidate of the election....the one that the press and the other candidates were trying to ignore, despite her popularity. )

I personally knew I wasn't going to win. My character is easily seen as an "extremist"....and in some ways she is. I also know that I'm not exactly "Ms. Popular" back in the RoH forum either. :grin:

Some part of me was actually hoping that Wolvinator would win....A scandal-wracked tenure with enemies on all sides trying to make him look bad....it would've made for some great RP, if done right. I'm sure if G'nort won there would be plenty of scandals as well....but fewer enemies trying to pull him down. :lol:

As far as the number of names vs. number of votes....I personally have 3 names registered. I know of people who have a dozen or more. Plus, you have to consider all the characters (and players) who just aren't around anymore.

Yeah, I would've liked a better turn-out myself. I know there are more than 60 active (i.e. more than one post/chat visit per week) players out there.

— Nevermind.

That would be their intended purpose as well - not to garner votes. Personally, I love silliness, and for such a 'serious' SL, it was nice there was some silliness involved imo. And I was happy I got a chance to participate in some of that silliness, even if just for a little bit. :)

G and Erin's players make me lolz.

I think that makes the biggest difference, Amal. The interaction and gettign to know someone through RP.

I think that was forgotten in the long run...

::raises his hands under oath::

Yep, Karen was there and impressed the socks off of Wil.

And I swear, I don't use performance enhancing drugs or HGH.

Finally, I just want to give my appreciation to all the candidates who participated in this. It takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the candidates and for the most part, they all got flack for it. It couldn't have been too much fun. However, their willingness to do this has enabled quite a few interesting story lines in many of the folders, and I'm sure we'll see more unfold in the months ahead.

Huzzahs to ALL of them!

Wil's Player

My part in any "scandal" was for the fun involved in writing it. I mean....political scandals always make me lol. And then when Lydiaplayed off of it, too! It just got better and better.

So, thanks to everyone who played along, this was a fun time for me. OOC aside. :D

No offence to Matt's player....he's a great guy and we get along really well. His characters and my characters get involved in complicated storylines, etc. But, lets be honest, he posted the least of all the candidates. ( Of course, some times I felt like KW was the "Ron Paul" candidate of the election....the one that the press and the other candidates were trying to ignore, despite her popularity. )

I think Matt spends a lot of time in the RDI's Outback room btw. So there's more player interaction than posting. At least that's what it looks like to me.

Not sure what posting the least, or not, has to do with anything really. Kinda confused by that. Course, it was never much of an issue in my view so long as there is some kind of interaction, posting or live chat. erm...okay, I'll shut up.

Finally, I just want to give my appreciation to all the candidates who participated in this. It takes a lot of time and effort on the part of the candidates and for the most part, they all got flack for it. It couldn't have been too much fun. However, their willingness to do this has enabled quite a few interesting story lines in many of the folders, and I'm sure we'll see more unfold in the months ahead.

Thanks Will. Ditto! I know it's not easy playing with an SL that is so open to anything, and really ones like these should be. Thanks for dealing with all of it, IC and OOC. Especially OOC because I know some things can get pretty hairy and twisted. I hope none of you think my bringing up the One Vote per Player was an attempt to mess any of that up. It wasn't. It was just bad timing at a time when apparently there were a lot of people with things on their mind.

These links pretty much show that. What power does the Governor have" What power do players and admins hold in player driven SL's" Power gaming vs personal space

The *B* Word

~Shauri

Wasn't so bad a margin, Karen-mun - never mind you kicked enough tail to get through the primaries. You did a great job putting yourself out there, spending time in-room and writing up threads...

...So much so, that a character of mine who I originally had not thought would vote for you, ended up choosing to do so anyway. ^^

Seriously, I want to tell the election candidates as well as the primary candidates, awesome work. I got a big kick out of this SL - and for those of you who didn't win?

There's always next year. =)

I voted for Karen, Bob must always support the women of Rhydin and all so there was no real choice for him.

I still like my original, yet apparently funny Idea.

The elections were fun! Can't wait to do it again sometime.

http://rhydinwiki.com/index.php?title=Rhydin_Election_of_2009

It's pretty bare bones right now, but I just wanted to let people know that it's there and anyone is welcome to edit. You can look at the pages for the previous two elections to get ideas.

I'd have added more myself, but I find it's been so long since I've written anything I'm having a hard time putting thoughts into the written word. Ie, I'm really rusty. But if no one adds anything I'll try to hack away at it from time to time.

It has been some time since the 2013 election, so may I ask...

Elections, anyone" :)

That's cause you're a dueler G and that's where your interests lie. Which is great. Do what you love. :)

Others aren't that into dueling, and choose a more RP based style for their playtime. The elections are part of that.

— If there are going to be elections. I've never tried to be a part of a "bigger story line" before, but I'm willing to try.

So. If we're doing them. Aja will throw her hat in the ring. What the hell, right?

No. I didn't know that. I suspect a lot of other folks didn't either. You know I think you're fab.

A lot of different people have done some great stuff with the governor SL. I think more can be done.

It's a neat thing you started, G. So, let's keep it rolling and see where else it winds up.

The problem generally isn't what the person who gets to be governor does with it, but how those who aren't governor treats that person. I won't speak for them all but I've heard enough horror stories to make me think that starting the Governor SL was one of the worst things I've done here in RP-land.

Not exactly the right words, but the chorus is important.

Let it go.

Then again, in another context, those words are pretty good. :D

The problem generally isn't what the person who gets to be governor does with it, but how those who aren't governor treats that person. I won't speak for them all but I've heard enough horror stories to make me think that starting the Governor SL was one of the worst things I've done here in RP-land.

Have you heard anything good about it' I have and like you I'll keep them to myself.

And you started it for what reason'

If folks stopped things that weren't liked or working correctly, we wouldn't have a lot of the stuff we have today.

I started it as mainly a joke, for fun and a way to be lighthearted in the realm of RP. Then Gav's player and Amal got involved with me to try making it more of a big thing. Of course it met with controversy because people didn't want an SL to have any power over anything in the RP world. Then it took off a bit more and people then wanted to have the Governor take more of a real role in everyone's RP world. Then people started to bother the Governors OOC about their role in everything, trying to use the governor to legitimize whatever SL they were doing to a point of hounding and making players want to quit.

While I understand that it's probably not a majority of people who do that to the players who are governor, that ANY would do it is enough that this SL should be dropped, and ended, because these sorts of things have been happening in the recent reigns moreso than the early reigns.

So, let it go.

I would like to see the Governor SL continued....Heck, Andu might even run for Gov himself if another election were run.

But I can understand why it has fallen out of favor with some. I have some thoughts perculating on the topic, but it's late, they are long, deep ones, and I want to wait to express them clearly enough not to stomp on any toes. So give me a day or three, and we'll see what we see of the results of the brewing.

The biggest detractor for the Governor SL is when there are events/playables in which areas like the Marketplace are assaulted, or there is some sort of "terrorist" attack within the city. It puts whomever is playing Governor on the spot to respond in some way because their character is now in a situation where ICly, that's a public event that would warrant reaction/action in any setting. Their character gets treated as a real politician, if they respond they get flack, if they don't respond, they get more flack, if they don't fulfill what they say they'll do, they get tons of flack. Those situations kill the SL for the person playing Governor. This is all just an observation of mine from being on the sidelines.

If the Governor SL is going to die, then it needs to die in a really fabulous way. I mean...what fun is there in one week having a Governor and then just not' Hostile takeover" That shadowy group of people that used to run RhyDin (in the old setting description for the city) comes back"

There's potential to make a memorable end to what was a terrific SL.

Also, if there isn't going to be a Governor anymore, Jewell is going to put a bid in to become the actual Empress of RhyDIn. Just so you all know :)

I'm not playing here anymore (or checking PMs — sorry Jewell and Kal +crazy+ ) but if I did come back I would only have time for the GangSTAR.

GangSTAR > Governor

I agree with letting the SL die. It is already dying a natural death on its own. Let's just give it a DNR and let it go peacefully~

If the Governor SL is going to die, then it needs to die in a really fabulous way.

Rekah should be named Empress of Rhy'Din instead. She and Jewell can fight over it. :lol:

There is no single owner of this SL, as evidenced by the plethora of posters in this folder and the Governor's Office. A single individual may have sparked the idea, but it has since evolved into a community owned and community driven concept.

That being said, Marc Franco has already stated he's no longer running the election. So, the question becomes, if people actually want this to continue, who's going to run it' Because if nobody steps up to the plate and takes over the important duty of actually coordinating the election, then there won't be an election, and the SL will just naturally disappear.

To me, that's the deciding factor, moreso than any opinions in this thread. Who's going to do the work? No work = No SL.

I posted this last night on the other side, but to keep the conversation here:

I think that G, as the creator of the SL, should absolutely have a say. However, the SL is a public one. In a way, he created it and gave it to the community to play with. At some point, I believe he ceases to have full "ownership" of it. If his word is law for the SL (as in, he says end it so it must end) than what would stop him from retconning the whole thing" It's become a group effort, so one person really shouldn't make the final decision.

If the SL is going to end, it should end for the right reasons:

*Lack of interest on the part of the community *Lack of player participation (which seems to be a problem) *Too many problems associated with the SL



As someone who was not at all interested in the SL when it first started, I actually found myself looking forward to it earlier this year. Judging by other responses on the RDI-side thread, I think there is still interest in the SL.

The real issue: Is there still enough player participation to make it happen"

As I said over on the RDI-side, if the SL is not going to continue, I think it would be fabulous to make it go out with a bang!

I don't know :/ Something just strikes me a little wrong about saying G doesn't have control of the SL anymore just because he made it public.

Sid invented WestEnd. It's her setting. She has loose rules for using that setting, but she said "hey, let's share" and put her baby out into the wild. That doesn't mean the WestEnd isn't hers in the end of the day. If after years of watching people interact with the setting made her sit back and say "wow, people really don't portray my setting the way it was intended, and that upsets me" (not saying G is upset, just examples here); wouldn't she have the ability to come here and reclaim her setting" Would we get in her way just because she generously let us use her setting for so long"

That's the way I feel about this SL thing. G might have sat back and let the community play with his idea...but he started it. If he's disappointed with how we the community used the idea over the years (and the OOC ramifications), I think he has the ability to step up and say "Enough."

I wouldn't get in Sid's way and I won't get in G's either.

This isn't a setting though. This is an idea. A very broad one at that. WestEnd is a moderated folder. If Sid decides she doesn't like where it's going then she absolutely has the power to make changes in her own folder. What are we saying G'nort has say so over" The entire idea of RhyDin having elections at all" Or, specifically, the idea of a "Governor?" If the decision was made to change it to Mayor of RhyDin, or some other named public official, would that make a difference"

It turns into splitting hairs, which seems like an overall pointless endeavor. If the community still wants "elections" for "public officials" then they're still going to do it anyway. No individual can claim ownership of those ideas.

Personally, I am not looking to split hairs or be petty. It's just the idea that if the community becomes active enough in a SL that it is no longer in the control of the person that started it.

What about this encourages people to make SLs that involve the community if we need to put an asterisk and tell them "oh, by the way, if we really like and/or enough of us get involved, your idea/story will no longer be yours to control and if you don't like it you no longer have to take part in the idea that was yours to begin with."

I suppose then the real question is this:

If I make a playable that becomes a site event, who "owns" the idea/event' The community that participates or the person who created it"

Personally, I believe you would have been well within your rights to step forward and say "Hey, Beltane was great but I'd like it to be over." Could the site just have stepped up and did a generic Spring Solstice event' Sure. You made the decision to let Beltane stand as-is, no one else. If they had made the Spring Solstice event though you would know it has nothing to do with you. You have no say any more in anything that happens to it. You would have surrendered that ability when you "closed" Beltane.

Even though the election became a site event, it started off as a personal SL (even if it was a lark) for G's character, which he points out exploded into something more than he planned. All the same, it started as a personal SL, not a site event. Did he do anything to stop that from happening" It doesn't appear that way (I don't personally know) and he might have enjoyed the site wide aspect at the time. But it seems we (generic) sort of co-opted what was a personal SL.

edit: removed a section because my wording sucked and I couldn't really convey what I wanted to say with the words I used~ I'm becoming a little braindeadish with old age~ ;D

Personally, I have absolutely no objection to people starting their own elected official SL. I want that to be clear. I am not saying G has absolute ownership to any and all elected official type SLs.

I mean the whole Gov SL is opt-in anyway. If your character doesn't believe in the Gov there is not one. It has no more impact on your character than any other playable in the folder.

My only issue is the idea that the community can take control of a SL outside of the wishes of the SL's creator because enough people became involved or it became an event. I think we do a disservice to forget how this SL started. It became an event, sure, but it started off as his SL. We shouldn't dismiss that.

I don't think you're being confusing :) And I totally value your, and everyone elses, take on it. I mean we are only putting forth our opinions on it and this just happens to be my feeling about the issue, and it really doesn't have to do with what this particular SL is even about. It could be an event about a strawberry fest where they crown a Strawberry Queen (which actually kind of sounds like fun to me because I like local festivals like that IRL, but I wander).

I just really think this sort of thing could become a slippery slope. It's one thing if the person who began it feels they have no real ownership to the SL (such as Jewell with Beltane) but since he came here and gave his two cents as the originator of the SL, he obv still has a sense of attachment or ownership to the SL and I think that matters.

I just really think this sort of thing could become a slippery slope. It's one thing if the person who began it feels they have no real ownership to the SL (such as Jewell with Beltane) but since he came here and gave his two cents as the originator of the SL, he obviously still has a sense of attachment or ownership to the SL and I think that matters.

I think it is a slippery slope as well. I don't want to make G feel like his opinion doesn't matter, the fact that he created the SL itself doesn't matter, and that he has absolutely no ownership over something he created. That is a lousy feeling.

If he's really against it, I can see the reasons for honoring that. I would rather work something out to make the SL still work if people want it, though. It would be sad to cancel an SL that people still want to be a part of just because one person (even if that person is the originator) doesn't want it. Obviously, other people don't want it either but..

I <3 the idea of a council a lot!

Also, in terms of who is willing to take over the role of recovering/restarting/starting something new...I think we may need a few days, but something might be worked out :)

I agree that it's a slippery slope, too!

I think this issue was bound to come up sooner or later. I really hope it all works out to everyone's satisfaction (or as best as possible). I don't like seeing anybody feeling bad about their SL, either.

So what does the future hold for public official community voting events? Time will tell.

~S

:cool:

A thought slash idea:

There could be a NPC Gov type with a community elected council such as the mentioned Council of Ministers"

That way no one character (or player) is perceived to have too much power (as was the sometime case with a playable Gov), yet there is a body of individuals doing political and city work type SLs"

I really do want the people who want an election SL to have an alternative they can be satisfied with just as much as I want G's feelings on the existing Gov SL to be respected. I am not at all thinking the people who want an election are wrong/bad/whatever. I just hope there is, somewhere in all this, something that can make that happen :)

Though, I suppose, in the end..like Harris and Collie said: If no one is willing to step forward to help run it, it doesn't really matter in the end, anyway.

WOo!

So, while one person may have introduced the idea of having a community wide governor, it's not like creating a detailed setting or a specific office (such as lord high Iterator of RhyDin). I don't call that slippery slope. Every state in the US has a governor, after all, but there only one Schwarzenegger - if you get my point.

I just wanted to say, just to make sure I was clear (heck I don't even know if this was what Pharlen's player was referencing when she used the phrase) but when I used "slippery slope" I am specifically referring to the idea that the community can take control of a SL from the original creator if they feel the SL has become a community event. This is just me being overly cautious and making sure I was clear (though I do think I beat the above stated idea like a red-headed step child, which I would have used a more colorful term but we are pg-13 ;))

But if later the community wants to do a king of RhyDin group s/l, there shouldn't be anything stopping that.

I completely 100% agree with this.

ETA: lol and now I need to unsubscribe to this thread because I'm spending more time on the internet today than I should be ;) I am sure people will work this out however it works best for all involved. I've said my piece and while I am a minority opinion by the looks of things, at least it was voiced and will be considered when people move forward :)

I'm all for anything that gets all of us involved in the setting, and I like the idea of a council. Or ministries? Ministry of Law Enforcement, Ministry of Health, Ministry of Giant Monsters, things that are easier to pick up and put down as needed.

So if say, Collie was Minister of Shiny Things and you weren't able to keep up, Collie could hand that ministry over to Amthy, or, could hold a quick impromptu vote, or vote to appoint from a selection of people who are willing to do the part. The Minister could have helpers, and spread it out even further.

I'm gonna put it out there that having site-wide SLs that hold something of political intrigue are kinda neat. However, I'm not exactly sure that they a) need to be going on every year or b) need to die out completely.

As y'all have stated, we've had a few Governor campaigns and terms dry up because, hey, we're people with lives. That said, not every elected official IRL has had notable terms, either. With that said, I'm not exactly sure that making it an organized thing with set meetings, awards, etc is the way to go about it. There've been times that other SLs have been stepped on during a GAC meeting, or co-opted into the Governor elements that really, likely needed a different forum than that. I'm kind of in favor of a more impersonal approach to the political figures of RhyDin when addressing the populace as a whole, while those who actually want to be West Winging it up can do just that. It'd be neat to see like, something on the announcements and Playables from the office, with a little link to see the skullduggery and whatnot behind it, and have it left at that.

As for ownership of an SL, I....really don't give a rat's ***. If it isn't involving the originator's characters and isn't stepping on their existing themes and stories, then it ought not be a problem. It's like a hermit crab backing that *** up into an old sea snail shell. If it's something that isn't as general as "High MucketyMuck of the Shared Setting," then yeah, maybe you wanna check in.

I just wanted to say, just to make sure I was clear (heck I don't even know if this was what Pharlen's player was referencing when she used the phrase) but when I used "slippery slope" I am specifically referring to the idea that the community can take control of a SL from the original creator if they feel the SL has become a community event. This is just me being overly cautious and making sure I was clear (though I do think I beat the above stated idea like a red-headed step child, which I would have used a more colorful term but we are pg-13 Wink)

I want to clarify my stance on this issue.

I don't think the community 'took control' over G's SL. It's my perception (right or wrong) that G's idea was a nice gift to the community. One presented with the goal of getting players involved in something fun, by making it an election event. And it worked. I still view it as a gift, which means the control is shared by G and the community. A team effort.

As I mentioned before, imo, once you put your idea(s) out to the community for their active participation it's going to change things for you as the 'creator'. I say this because it's happened to others, and not just on this site.

Sure, it has its problems. That's a given since the community is comprised of so many different personalities. It's a shame that some players made it difficult and/or unbearable for those whose character held the community elected position of Governor of RhyDin. In fact, it angers me that it happened at all. The problem is, that's not going to change knowing human behaviour.

My stance is, if you don't want to relinquish some control over your idea and/or if you don't want to have to deal with the problems that will arise (and you know there will be some), then don't offer your idea to the community for their participation. Because, as we've all seen, your idea is more than likely going to evolve into something else. Whether you like it or not.

As harsh as that sounds, it's what I think. I'm not saying that I approve of what happens. I'm saying it is what it is. :/

I sincerely hope that everything works out for the best, now and for future events. I thank G and the community for making the Governor elections (and the results) fun for me as a member of this RP community. It truly was a team effort, imo.

~S

:cool:

It is, LadyAjaBird, it's opt in or out according to how you play. :)

And very well said, Aja and Shy!

Minister of Justice made perfect sense to me on account of the fact of there existing characters such as Lucien Mallorek (a lawyer) and Riley O'Rourke (lawyer background) and....what?s that law firm' Dewey Cheatham & Howe" I was taking into account that there were established characters who were well known to be champions of the law. I remember quite a few storylines revolving around court cases. So I figured it'd only make sense for Rhy'Din to have it's own sort of Chief Justice. Ergo: Minister of Justice. Though everybody seems to be in agreement that Rhy'Din is lawless, at the same time people were playing things off as if real world American laws were under effect.

Sorry. Felt the need to defend that decision. I thought long and hard on those positions. Trying to fit it into a real world model and what I remember from my bygone days of Introduction to Politics in college. I admit it's not a flawless system, and I fully encourage everybody to build off of it! I like the Council idea. I like what Fio did with it better than what I tried. I like what you guys are brainstorming about here even more. But! I think if we're going to do this, what needs to be done is to write up this transformation. Maybe even ask Rekah to help get that ball rolling" She's the current Governor. Maybe she could make a proclamation' People whisper in her ear" Make suggestions" Throw in some evil? I don't want to see one SL just completely dropped without closure to be entirely replaced by another, is what I'm saying.

No need to defend it, Dris. At least not to me. The main point was that I was trying to make is that was the only position that caused a major OOC conflict. The others were kind of given a nod and moved onward. Several of those Ministers created some really good projects and drew players in. That's what we need, more cooperative projects and less griefing of players trying to do a good thing.

I don't have anything useful to add or weigh in to this conversation. I just personally thought that I would address why I pulled Suliss'urn out of the running last time!

Generally at that time, I may have logged in to play Suliss' and check PM's and how her forum was doing every 3-6 months at best, and like now, I may only actually be in the room role playing once or twice bi-yearly. Or lurking, but not actually in the mood for playing. I felt that wasn't the type of player needed for a good/bad/fun/what-have-you Governor, personally. I felt like the SL deserved a more dedicated player than I was at that time (and currently still am.)

So that's why I withdrew Suliss'. :)

Also, I enjoyed watching and reading the race to Governor.

Let's do a survey!

Take the AWESOME GOVERNOR'S SL SURVEY HERE: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JYP2YBH

This is for OOC purposes only. I will close the survey on August 1, 2014...granted I can figure out how to do that :)

Also, please only one player per vote.

But, I'll point out one very, very important thing here to counter that. This is a city filled with People. The nay sayers can say what they like, but it makes complete and utter, logical sense for there to be at least some form of legitimate "authortiy" (Thats a phrase that can be taken very loosely), even in a lawless place like Rhy'din. Becuase People like to have an aurthority figure to blame (We know this from the OOC fallout on some of the Govenor's in the past, where they might have been blamed for others actions, or where the Admins themselves might be held accountable for something a player has done. We're human, and for the most part, so are the people of Rhy'din, both NPC and playable.) Someone has to make sure that roads are in working order, don't they' Or that the least currupted/curruptable NPC Watch Officers are doing their jobs to the normal, laughable degree that they do it, or that the Docks are maintained so that shipping can continue to ply it's way through the city. Or at the very least, someone should be overseeing all this activity, by these various civil organisims, becuase thats how cities actually work. It's all well and good say that the Inn magically heals itself. But I personally think it's insulting to ourselves as writers, if we try and say the city maintains itself purely 'by magic'.

I disagree. I like the Governor SL , but I do not think it is at all necessary to have a figure-head. RhyDin existed just fine for years without one. Like...a very very long time. That doesn't mean we should or shouldn't have one, it just means we don't need one. Everyone's version of RhyDin is different anyway. You may need/want an authority figure in yours; that's not true of other people.

Who fixes the roads? Local neighborhoods. I'll tell you right now that the person making sure Little Elfhame (Jewell's neighborhood in Old Market) is maintained is Jewell and the people living there. She wouldn't let a government official in without immediately showing them the way back out.

The Governor is a nice playable. That's it.

OMG! Why have we not created the Triple Threat Triad yet!?

We must do this RIGHT NOW!

OMG! Why have we not created the Triple Threat Triad yet!?

We must do this RIGHT NOW! Screw the Governor. Let's make it about CRIME BOSSES.

Stop stealing my ideas!

Reading through this, and the other threads on related topics..... I guess the Governor SL needs to be ended. An IC ending would be good.

A "replacement" I might suggest is something similiar to the "Chamber of comerce" SL started by Brian a while back, but expanded to cover other topics relating to the community as well.

What came to me is a sort of "Non-profit corporation" formed by members of the community to support the community in a more organized matter.

I've got more thoughts on matter, but think I've said enough for now, so....

IS there anyone willing to take over the work of the Accounting firm in regards to the elections?

I won't lie. I really love this. That way there's no one to BLAME if a storyline isn't covered. The group would only be there to help promote COMMUNITY EVENTS ( Dances, Carnivals, etc, etc, etc ) If the Marketplace gets blown up? It's not their problem. If a plague sweeps in and half the population turns to zombies and no one plays into it' Not their problem. It will just be there for community based events. Along with opening up possible shady storylines.

Just be sure to have your protection money handy if you're playing into it.

Edit: and just a note. Criminal doesn't mean evil. A group put into power could seriously have more of a guardian / protector sort of vibe that clashes with the other two of the triad.

Let's do a survey!

Take the AWESOME GOVERNOR'S SL SURVEY HERE: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JYP2YBH

This is for OOC purposes only. I will close the survey on August 1, 2014...granted I can figure out how to do that :)

Also, please only one player per vote.

Survey, excellent idea!

So I very much support the idea of a small council instead. It doesn't even have to be a "ruling" council, just a group chosen by the community to serve the community.

This right here.

Just as a for instance, Johnny Storm started a volunteer fire department in at least one district. Rhiannon Harker created a secondary fire brigade during her time as Baroness of Old Temple. I think one of the things that a Rhydin City Council could do is help raise funding to help out projects like that. Rhydin has a lot of wealthy citizens that would be willing to support community projects like those, but they are too deeply involved in their own businesses or personal activities to spearhead them. The council could act as the intermediaries between the people with the money and the people with the vision of things to benefit the community.

This is in line with what Jewell said about neighborhoods taking care of road building, etc. Not all communities within Rhydin are wealthy and, sometimes, there are immediate needs like natural disasters (Hannibal) or diseases (RBF) that could drain a neighborhood's resources. They might need outside help for those things. I think it fosters a community spirit among players because when someone is brainstorming they often do the Little Red Hen thing and try to do it all alone. Having support both IC and OOC means they might consider options they haven't before.

The Rolodex that Kitty started could be updated by players and used as a tool to invite interested parties into projects. A point of contact (possibly a thread in the player's one folder) should be added to that business card idea. Maybe a list of services or projects that character can provide or would be willing take part in. Maybe a notice board thread as a point of contact for players without folders" I make this suggestion because I don't always check PMs, but if I'm involved in a project, I do check that particular board. I do not doubt that other players have similar practices.

Strictly speaking we do have crime bosses and vigilante justice. ;)

Saw this in the DM thread and now say...never mind the suggestion. :)

3) The idea of the Governor being an NPC that anyone could use in any way for their SLs would only lead to worse chaos and arguements. How could I (for example) write a story about KW working with the Governor to root out corruption in the Guards if someone else is writing a story about how the Governor is a rabid anti-religious figure who's using the Guard to persecute all organized religions?

Valid point. Carry on.

Rhydin did have a Yakuza threat for a while....there were some good storylines spun off from it before the SL's creator moved on.

Mr. Craven Delights, I am into this idea. There're some other little iffy-rara queations, like how much effort do we really wanna put into setting up infrastructure, and how much do we want players in power positions.

It might be worth tying in like....district-to-forum stuff, to keep political metaplots organized, if someone really wants to do a "Rabies Outbreak at the WestEnd Children's Pound" SL that spreads through the whole district, but otherwise, it can equally be ignored by folks who're more into other stuff.

I posted this in DM, gonna repost it here:

ok, I usually don't like to give my opinion because I don't want people to think it's an official position. This is not an official statement. Just me.

I remember when G and I talked about the Governor. We were joking about it and he said something about being the Governor. So I called him Governor G. I really don't know how it all started other than we did talk and joked about it.

I even made this image when the elections were announced http://www.isauras.com/images/rdipeople-cover.jpg

The elections were covered by The Oracle with interviews from the candidates.

Thing is, when G and I were joking about this I pictured the Governor as kind of a rockstar. Walk around town kissing babies, shaking hands, signing autographs. No big deal.

(Before I continue I want to make it clear: No, I am not taking any credit for the Governor. But I was involved with it and I get part of the blame.)

Then people got upset about the whole Governor thing and were worried about someone trying to actually rule RhyDin. G and I were confused because that was never the intent of it. It was a fun thing. Just a title without any power. Yeah, we were a bit crushed.

We figured oh well, it will be a one term thing and that's that. Time passed and the Governor didn't go away, instead it evolved. There have been elections every year and I see a bit less participation. What I can't figure out is that now that no one wants to run the elections some players don't want to see it go away and they are even talking about what the Governor's responsibilities are. After all the fuss that was made about not even acknowledging the Governor at the beginning of the whole thing. So yeah, that makes me go huh' Need to find a confused smiley scratching its head for this, so imagine there is one here.

I still think the Governor should be a rockstar and should walk around town shaking hands, signing autographs and kissing babies.

As I was thinking about this, when G and I talked about the Governor it was an idea to involve RDI and RoH. It worked with Matt and Fio even got them more involved by inviting the Barons to the GAC meetings. What triggered my memory about it was when I read Fiona's post about the council and the multiple authority figures and I thought "That's the Barons".

But I still think the Governor is not an authority figure. The Governor is a rock star, a PR person. Nothing more than that.

But I still think the Governor is not an authority figure. The Governor is a rock star, a PR person. Nothing more than that.

That's actually pretty much exactly how I played it while I could, haha. Dris thinks he's a rockstar anyway. Being Governor for a year only inflated his ego even more, and he'll never let people forget he was. NOR will he let people forget that he totally won the Governor's Cage Match against Kitty, Fio, AND Matt Simon. He will rub that in forever. Because he's no dueler, and that was awesome.

Somehow we've got bogged down in an assumption that the Governor has power and can affect things, that somehow the Governor has some form of control over the running and working of Rhy'Din. I think we should get back to basics. The Governor is just a front, a figurehead, and has no power, essentially. If the SL is to continue, I think this should be made clear right from the start. Just my opinion, though.

I like this. I think we could continue the Governor SL the way it's been so long as we set this very clearly in "The Rules."

I also very much like the Baronies as described over on RoH, and how Fio brought them into the fold with her GAC. No real power and fluid as to who's in charge of them. I think we could incorporate those together still the way originally intended. I like it a lot when RDI and RoH come together and intermingle.

If the governor is just a figurehead/puppet, who is the Dai Li pulling the strings"

Just throwing this question out there since a lot of people seem to like the council idea: Would a council also be limited in power" Obviously, any government is limited to the power we the players and our characters give it. I guess the correct question really is what is the point or objective of having a governor or council" In order to have some type of political oriented SLs, don't they need to be more than just another celebrity"

This is why I suggested the council be more of a group of facilitators for citizens and various services in the city as opposed to being in charge.

I like that.

I also have really enjoyed just about every idea that has been mentioned in the last week, so I feel so wishy-washy because I'm like, "Oh that sounds awesome! We should all do that!" "Oh wait! No! We should do that instead!"

I don't have the survey set to finish until August 1st. I know that probably seems like a long time, but this way no one gets left out if they're on vacation or something (it's that time of the year). If a council is what people in general want to go with, I'm curious about the type of council.

Is it arranged around services, like Collie suggested"

Is it arranged around geographical location' I really like that idea because I think it could compliment the Baron set up (and like Dris said, something that brings the two communities together=good) but it also could conflict with that' Maybe good conflict, maybe bad.

Is it not arranged around anything but just like...five elected officials to balance each other out and work together for the fun and goodness of the city"

Uhmmm.... How about a council made up of Barons, and Archimage, representing the interest of the populous of the cities districts (including Twilight Island) AND Elected Ministers responsible for various services and/or trades.

Though the "real world" version of this would have the districts be elected, and the ministers put forth by the relevant groups, this would provide a distinctly Rhy'din twist.

I love the idea of this being a full community effort and further solidifying the often weakened bridge between players in the RDI and RoH. However, I'm not so sure that title holders, simply by virtue of being title holders, are the best choices for a council to do public service or act as government reps.

G'nort, regardless of any dueling title he might have, is a long time citizen of Rhydin that owns a couple of businesses.

Jake Thrash, again regardless of titles, is long time citizen, and owner of one of the best known breweries in Rhydin, Red Orc.

Shadowlord along with Claire Caelum have a vested interest in community activities and support it through the running of Dragon's Gate Orphanage.

Terry King is active in public service with her support of a women's shelter.

Those are people that either currently have or have had major titles.

There are plenty of other duelists that have not been a Baron, Overlord, Diamond, Opal, Keeper, or Archmage that would be better suited to assisting the public in some way than some that have been or are presently title holders; such as Aja Bird and Jewell Ravenlock.

Those are the things that need to be considered not just dueling titles, but how much interest that character would actually have in participating and bettering the community.

There are plenty of other duelists that have not been a Baron, Overlord, Diamond, Opal, Keeper, or Archmage that would be better suited to assisting the public in some way than some that have been or are presently title holders; such as Aja Bird and Jewell Ravenlock.

Those are the things that need to be considered not just dueling titles, but how much interest that character would actually have in participating and bettering the community. Quoted again for truth. Jesse was the Archmage for 3 cycles before Lem finally beat her and she wouldn't be, at all, good for any sort of public council. Unless Undead Rights matters.

At time there are inactive title holders so it would be a waste of a spot when someone without a title could be more active and take their place. It should be more about who is fit for the jop over simply being able to win a title and being gifted it. It can be easily done by having a few seats set aside for RoH representatives and allowing the dueling community to vote for them.

Also, no where that I am currently aware (and please direct me if I am wrong) is a place that says the Gov must do loads of IC/OOC things. What about being elected makes us (generalized) believe that the player is responsible for planning community events or defining/fine-tuning our idea of Rhy'Din" I mention this since I wonder if that is part of the feeling of the Gov being "work". Just because there is a calendar of holidays it doesn't mean that the player behind the Gov to go out and make sure there is an event for Children's Day or any other day on the list. We (again, generalized) are wrong to put that kind of burden on the player. Just as we are wrong to assume that since something is in the playable folder that the Gov has any input or control over what happens in that situation.

Does it hurt to contact the player of the Gov as a starting place" In the issue of the playables, I think it's best to start with the person who posted it. In the issue of an event, I can see where it's a good place to start. But maybe we need to reconsider how we approach it"

Instead of "What are you doing for x or y event?" we say "Is there anyone planning x or y event?"

I also think, and this is oh so totally my opinion only and reflects only on me, that if you are going to ask about an event you should only do so if you are prepared to offer your assistance. Otherwise it puts an undue burden on the Gov's player to think they *have* to plan something, which they may not really have the time to do.

Outside of the election thing, I think there should be an open OOC only committee of individuals (as in people can join it or leave it at any time) who are responsible for planning the calendar events that can work in conjunction with the Gov's player—if the Gov's player wishes to in involved and with site hosts (if they wish to involve them). That way people who are interested in planning events can join up, and said events are more likely to happen.

Some of holidays on the Rhydin calendar like Children's Day and Citizens' Day were added to the calendar by a Governor. I think that's where the issue of who is spearheading what begins. A mindset of It was one person's creation, are they taking charge started there.

What has happened is we went from the player of a Governor, Fionna, that was extremely active with the SL to one wasn't, Rekah. I'm not meaning to be critical of Rekah's player with that, it's just how things are. Having had one that's been extremely active is what caused those expectations of who is responsible for what and taking care of what.

I think the Governor's Office folder is used, in part, to ask questions like Instead of "What are you doing for x or y event?" we say "Is there anyone planning x or y event?" It became a central focus point for those looking for community events or who was doing the planning. The Community Events folder was created to handle those things but it's more of a case of here are the plans and what we have ready not this is a planning session add your input. I don't think any of like to have our toes stepped on nor do we like to be the ones doing the toe crunching.

I with agree with you and I don't. Inquiring should not be considered committing to plan any given event. Some people just want to know what their characters should be preparing for or what events might already be planned so that something they might be considering putting on the table and/or real life activities don't clash. People should not volunteer to plan and carry out events if their interest is not sincere. Even if one can only contribute a small thing, it makes a difference. It doesn't just put an undue burden on the player of the Governor, it can leave other players in the lurch that had been depending on someone's participation. Unexpected things do happen in life, but that's not what you're addressing here.

The planning committee should be an in character entity as well, same principle as the council suggestion. While it's the players that do the actual work, we pretty much have to have a character's face there for the IC aspect of things.

Some of holidays on the Rhydin calendar like Children's Day and Citizens' Day were added to the calendar by a Governor. I think that's where the issue of who is spearheading what begins. A mindset of It was one person's creation, are they taking charge started there.

What has happened is we went from the player of a Governor, Fionna, that was extremely active with the SL to one wasn't, Rekah. I'm not meaning to be critical of Rekah's player with that, it's just how things are. Having had one that's been extremely active is what caused those expectations of who is responsible for what and taking care of what.



Ah! thank you :)

I thought most of the community holidays came from the thread on the DM http://www.dragonsmark.com/forums/viewtopic.php"t=3798 and were community collaboration and not one particular Gov's" While the topic was prompted by Fio's player, it was Lan that brought it to the boards, and the community contributed by offering ideas and then it was put to vote/poll and what not. Which is different than, say, Beltane which was planned and executed by Jewell's player (with assistance, yes, but she spearheaded the endeavor).

This is why I suggest a committee (however it shakes down to be) since it appeared, to me, to be a joint community effort (the calendar, that is).

The planning committee should be an in character entity as well, same principle as the council suggestion. While it's the players that do the actual work, we pretty much have to have a character's face there for the IC aspect of things.

I admit, when I was thinking about it I was thinking about the players who don't play characters who would be on a planning committee. I was trying to think of the most inclusive way to work that, and OOC seemed a likely way.

But, yes, I can see your point. And if you played a character that would be someone to be a coordinator IC, how you would want your character to have that IC involvement.

I do know that Brian is trying to Resurrect the Chamber of Commerce, why not have people get involved in that type of organization. Events and the things we have been doing all along would certainly fit into the Chamber's or even the Welcome Center's purview.

We have elements of these type of committees and organizations already built into the running background of Rhydin, why not develop these fully?

I did volunteering for festivals and events while working with our local Chamber of Commerce back in High School. They also sponsored after school activities like Junior Achievement. One of our biggest sponsors owned a big Trash removal company and Banquet facility.

I'm thinking Municipal Governments might have things like this build into the structure without having to have an *elected* official.

I know I'm jumping into the convo a little late but how about we just have a Governor and people volunteer for events"

The community overwhelmingly wants a Governor SL. So the community has spoken.

I feel like having an officially elected "government" sends the wrong message. I feel like giving designations as Lieutenant, etc. sends a message of formality that people who might be new to the site wouldn't understand.

Before the GAC was formed and everything became so official there was usually just a Governor and that was it. Like people have mentioned, a figure head who only had power if the player base wanted to give it to them.

The Governor can return to being that character. If you, as a player, want to say that the Governor has power to send the Watch after your character for behaving badly you can do so. If you'd rather that no one get involved in your SLs you don't have to let them because they are the Governor.

For years whenever events were planned, like the holidays, it was done so by volunteers. The issue isn't that Rekah is too inactive of a Governor. The issue is that people stopped volunteering to hold events and we now have an acute shortage of hosts to disseminate the "work" of events.

As far as I understand and have seen, there are only two hosts who host in the RDI with regularity. And two hosts who host in the SEB with any regularity. This means that there are 4 people out there who are actively hosting.

The onus isn't on the shoulders of the acting Governor to hold events or arrange them. The onus is on the community. Beltane was held this year by volunteers. A variety of other events were as well.

On top of this although we would like to keep the "tradition" of those events going everyone has the capability to do so if they would like to see those holidays return. The responsibility shouldn't fall on the shoulders of the player who plays the Governor to do everything.

Also, the admin team of DM has remarked over and over again that being elected Governor does not give one a staff position at DM. It doesn't even make you a host unless you apply for the position.

Normally RDI hosting staff would take the reigns and hold events such as Beltane, the various balls, etc. Right now the site has about 4-5 active hosts in total, and from what I understand, one of those active hosts is on leave and only comes around sporadically.

I think it just needs to go back to the way it was in the first place. The Governor can arrange events, and ask for volunteers for events. When it comes to other events other players can volunteer as well. The hosts can decide to host events and organize them if they want to.

What we're seeing now isn't a lack of official titles and government in Rhy'din that needs to be formalized again. Its the fact that the current governor was less active in the role, the site had an acute shortage of hosts willing to plan and host events, and instead of people stepping up to hold those events, they just fell to the wayside.

I don't like the idea of the role of Governor becoming so formal that there needs to be a Lieutenant and an officially elected council. It worked beautifully before when the Governor was organizing some events, volunteers holding others, and hosts deciding to organize and arrange the rest as they were available.

Those players mentioned here as potential council members could volunteer to hold events or volunteer to become hosts. As I understand it the role of Lead Host isn't vacant, but held by someone who I haven't seen around much lately. Maybe there could be Co-Lead Hosts, or an Assistant Lead Host to try to fill out the roster of hosting and event arrangement.

In an ideal world holding government office isn't about having power, or infamy. Its about serving your constituency and community. What better way to serve the community of the RDI than to become a host' You can encourage play during your hosted shift, participate in organizing events, and get more actively involved while holding an "official" title.

I'm not sure what the process of applying to be a host, or holding the title entails. But if the site is so short on hosts right now maybe that needs to be looked over and revised"

And maybe those of you calling for more participation in organizing events, those of you who want a council, a chamber, or more official unofficial positions should look into applying.

As I understand it the role of Lead Host isn't vacant, but held by someone who I haven't seen around much lately. Maybe there could be Co-Lead Hosts, or an Assistant Lead Host to try to fill out the roster of hosting and event arrangement.

While I agree with some of what you said on your post, I have to make one thing clear. If you are talking about Toby, who does more than just hosting behind the scenes, you are assuming wrong. Also, there is no Lead Host position, unless you are referring to Host Coordinator. As Host Coordinator, Toby handles the hiring process and training. Toby is the gateway when hosts have a problem or question. Not to mention other duties like creating folders, approving new accounts, updating the calendar, etc.

I don't meant to derail the thread, but this needed to be said.

To add to what Amal said, players might be taking part in things behind the scenes that might not be openly known. Sometimes assumptions are made that one player or other doesn't do things because we are not privy to all of the SNs they have and might be working/playing under. I have always found Toby to be very helpful and timely ( generally 24-48 hours ) with answers to questions put to him via PM or the Contact Us system. Not downing Amal or Xeno here, but it wasn't their participation and work ethic that was being questioned.

Back on track with the thread. The community at large has not truly spoken; the membership is larger than twenty/thirty (") people that posted in this thread. However, the majority that have offered opinions favor retaining the Governor or creating some form of council.

Normally RDI hosting staff would take the reigns and hold events such as Beltane, the various balls, etc. Right now the site has about 4-5 active hosts in total, and from what I understand, one of those active hosts is on leave and only comes around sporadically.

The trend in the past few years has been for interested people to volunteer to host events or open their events for general participation, that goes for both Fionna and Rekah's terms as Governor. This is partly because they were addressed IC during GAC meetings. Katt Batten's player took charge of plenty of events in the last few years and was generally not doing it as a staff member. Warren (Quest) and Sissy took care of Beltane, year before last. Community Events has existed for about 18 months and few staff names (including Quest, Sissy, Katt) appear there as taking charge.

I think this needs to be said, partly because those that are mostly to find resemblence to their own situations/reasonings are also the ones least likely to come out and say anything.

There are lots of reasons why people seemingly don't get more involved in the community, but the first thing we must remember (In My Opinion) is that there are (at least) two distinct, seperate, but inter-related and dependent communities here, The IC one, and the OOC one.

Some people just don't have control over their schedules/calenders. Be it due to bosses that like to wait till the week before to decide what the nest week's work schedule will be like, children that can get sick or "forget" that school project till the night before it's due, personal emotional issues that can sneak up on us. Many don't know from day to day, much less week to week or month to month, when we can be certain we can give to these great communities of ours.

Hosting is as much an OOC as an IC commitment (promising to be on-line on a schedule). Hosting events is the same, though work arounds can be used for the "Live" part.

Some one said there are many ways of getting involved in the community. My reaction was "Huh' I guess I need to do some digging, because I don't know of all that many." It might be they were thinking both IC and OOC, and I was just thinking IC.

Muns may also simply have limited OOC time to be online and play, so have to prioritize what SNs they play as. And it would be "breaking Character" for some SNs to "get involved" in the community by many of the extant opportunities.

Personally, I must admit that when it comes to RPing, I'm almost strictly a "re-active" player. I've tried starting things more times than anyone but me will ever be allowed to know. But life hasn't wired my brain for it. I end up just blithering and staring at the screen/paper.

Delete please. Posted in the wrong thread. Sorry!

I would just like to take a moment to thank RhyDin Counting House's player for volunteering to head up this year's election. Though it's a daunting task, I think she did a fantastic job!

Thanks also to everyone who participated in the election or helped in any way.

And lastly, congratulations to Ebon, our new governor!

Awesome job, everyone! :grin:

^

your very welcome, glad to help any time.

I had a blast helping with this, and will gladly do so again.

I have a question. Does anyone know how I can have the Governor Medallion icon added to my inventory' I noticed that Ebon and Katt have them, but I don't know how long that has been a thing. Thanks!

August 2019

If I may, I would like to ask a serious question at this time.

Due to the site move and everyone still settling in and everything....Should the Governor elections be held this year"

If we should hold the election, would anyone like to run" Ideally, in my own completely personal opinion, I would like it if at least two or three players (players, not characters) would run who have the intention to run to win and at least be around every once in awhile in order to do something with the role, no matter how grand or modest. Please feel free to respond here or private message (PM) me if interested in running.

If we should not run the election, what suggestions would people like to see happen for the next year" For example, should an NPC governor be named so the tradition of the role can continue, and then we could bring in a PC Governor next year" I welcome any thoughts and feedback here or in PM.

Thank you.